Daily Devotion

Well, after what seems like years and years of campaigning we have finally come to the home stretch in the Presidential race. Finally the phone calls, the polls, and the commercials will stop (Hallelujah!

Yet what comfort there is for the believer in Christ, comfort knowing that God has even this election in control – lets consider God’s word.

Romans 13:1 “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”

What comfort there is in knowing that God establishes all authority on earth. When Caesar Nero was terrorizing the world Peter tells us in his Epistle to submit to and give respect to the king. Wow now that really gives me hope for the Lord is in control even if my guy does not win! So what is the Christian to do? A few thoughts.

    1. PRAY

Rom 13:4 … For he is God’s servant to do you good.

The authorities that exist are God’s servants, pray for them, pray that they might recognize that they are given their authority from above. In the bible we read of kings both pagan and Israelite who did not know that their authority was given by God. Their outcome was sometimes bad, so we pray for them to make wise decision and we pray for our nation to be godly.

Philippians 4:6-7 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

No stress, no anxiety in how the election turns out for God will give you peace when you bring your requests to him. What a wonderful promise that is.

2. VOTE.

Just as we recognize that God brings to power the man or woman he wants we also believe that God has place us in this time and place in history where we have civil rights and can exercise our right to vote. So we are as active in the election process as we feel led to be and we vote.

3. OBEY THE LAWS OF THE LAND (unless they go against our faith)

We are blessed in America with freedoms, I know of no law that I can not obey because of my faith in Jesus Christ. Yet the scriptures demand civil disobedience if the laws of men are against the laws of God.

Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than men!

As long as we have freedom of worship, freedom of speech, and freedom to assemble, we will do so. If the governments of men becomes totalitarian and we can no longer serve God, we will continue to serve the Lord.

Romans 12:18 “If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.”

So, remember to pray, remember to vote, remember to live in peace with everyone.

Blessings and Grace  –  Pastor Rich <><

 Yes, its true, Greg Davis has resigned as worship leader and is moving on.   Greg has been a real blessing to our church and has lead worship here for more then five years, he will be missed. 

Greg’s departure comes as a surprise to all of us.  Below is all the communication that we have had with Greg about his leaving, also I have posted my response to his first email. Greg has never been one to deal with these type of things in person, so we just have to take his e-mails at face value and the only information we have.

We all love and appreciate Greg and all he has done at our fellowship. Yet we wait with excitement to see what the Lord is going to do in our worship ministry. In the mean time all those involved with worship have committed to do whatever is needed to help out in leading.

Blessings and Grace

Pastor Rich <><

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

1st E-MAIL FROM GREG,

Dear Rich,
I hope everything has gone well these last two weeks.    Rich, I am confused right now and don’t know if I want to be a worship leader any longer.  So many things go into feeling this way and I don’t want to go into that.  I just don’t have the heart to continue any longer.  I have been praying and seeking the Lord on this decision and that is why I have taken the last two weeks off.  I believe He is telling me that He has something new for me, but I don’t know that for a fact which makes me sad and nervous at the same time.  I don’t know where I will end up, but I need to step out in faith.  Rich, thank you for all you and the church have done for me these last 6 years.  I will always consider you a good friend and a blessing in my life.
Blessings,
Greg

RESPONSE FROM PASTOR RICH

Greg,
Well, I can’t say I’m surprised by your e-mail, I can’t say the Spirit told me, but I had a feeling that this was coming.  Of course when I saw your equipment was gone Sunday, I knew.   Greg, in your e-mail, you said you were confused, so if you want to wait a few weeks to be sure that’s ok — and really, I would rather not have you resign, but I do love you and respect what you feel you must do.
Anyway, what do you want to do as far as telling the team and the congregation?   I think it would be best if you told them in person, but whatever.
I would hope and pray that our friendship and even your relationship with HSF would continue.  You have been greatly used by the Lord and a real blessing to me personally.   Please let me know how you want to handle things. 
Grace and Mercy,
Rich <><   

GREG’S RESPONSE TO ABOVE

Rich,
Thanks for your love and friendship.  This is something that has been brewing for a while and has come to a head recently.  The confusion is because I don’t want to do it because I have always felt HSF was my home.
I have been praying about it a lot and believe this is the only way to solve the problem.  I am not very good with personal “goodbyes” so I will email the team with my resignation today.  As for the congregation, I will leave that in your hands to do as you see fit.  Tell anyone who asks, that I love them.
Blessings,
Greg, Daniel and Catie

THE E-MAIL TO THE WORSHIP TEAM

Greetings everyone,
Due to personal reasons, I am resigning my position as worship leader.   Let me say that I love each and every one of you and it has been an honor to lead worship with all of you and it has been great to get to know each of you.  I have led worship for HSF for almost 6 years and it has been a real blessing in my life.
I wish I could have done this in person, but I’m not very good at goodbyes.
Love,
Greg, Daniel and Catie

Referring back to the fact that believers in Jesus Christ have been created to be like God, righteous and holy, it was the Apostle Paul who wrote these words.

Ephesians 4:25-27 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold.

That text gives us two important principles of faith, two places to allow purity to rule your life.

1. LIVE TRUTHFULLY.

To put off falsehood – and speak in truth. We live in a day when “spinning the truth” happens more then telling the truth. The business world often makes the statistics look better then they are. In the political world policies are spun to make the politician look good. Even the church often spins the story at the cost of truth. Living in purity, means you have the banner of truth about your life.

Ephesians 4:15 …Speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

To grow up, - is to speak truthfully. Even if it makes you look bad, “the truth will set you free.” Free to face your own sin, free to deal with situations, and free to speak honestly.

1. LIVE CONTROLLED.

Jesus saw the hypocrisy in God’s temple and he was angry. He ran out the money changers, he chased off those selling merchandise. Yet in his anger Jesus never sinned. His was righteous anger, it was anger over a situation and he was in total control.

How that differs from the anger we see today. Daily we read about anger in the newspaper and the results that are not good. The bible says: “Be slow to anger, because man’s anger does not do God’s work.”

Often uncontrolled anger is the result of un-forgivenesses and bitterness. Anger is spurred on by insecurity, when someone exposes your flaws the response is often anger. Way too often anger is just excused.

“Its his fault, its her fault, its because I’m Italian, I’m Irish.” “I have rage because of PMS or a full moon” All those are excuses — but Christians are not to excuse anger, or to justify rage. Don’t be like the woman tried to defend her bad temper by saying; “I explode and then it’s all over with.” “Yes,” replied a friend, “just like a shotgun - but look at the damage that’s left behind. “

Anger leads to rage, and out of control behavior. The devil will take hold of the emotion of anger more then any other. If you have a problem with uncontrolled anger don’t excuse it– deal with it. Uncontrolled anger is not because of anything except that you allow it to reign over you. Uncontrolled anger is sin and like all sin it needs to be dealt with. It needs to be confessed, repented of, then it needs to die in your life. That will happen when you turn to God and allow him to change you.

To live a pure life is to live honestly before God and in your own heart. To live in truth and to live in self control, these are manifestations of a life fully surrendered to God.

GRACE, MERCY AND PEACE. 

PASTOR RICH <><  

3 John 4 “I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth.”

What a surprise to see some old friends and some of the first members of our congregation come walking into our new facility. What joy to see Rick and Diana who now live in Oregon, after several years of being away from Nevada. Unfortunately I was only able to spend a short time with them, but what joy and love overcame me to see them.

I remember a Calamari dinner years ago, I recall how professional Diana was as our church secretary. I remember getting beaten really bad in tennis. Of course I remember the early years of ministry. The Wedding Chapel at the CVI. The step of faith to move in and share a building with VCF ( and all that time meeting at 8:30 am). I recall the huge step of faith to move into the HAAS center. Of course all that time we grew in our faith. How far God has taken us all.

John the Apostle writes the first century church, he is now an old man and he hears that many of those that God put into his path throughout the years are continuing to walk in the truth. He simply says, “I have no greater joy then to hear these things.”

This year will complete 17 years as a pastor, it has been a time of personal growth and excitement. To see old friends is a great joy, to hear that they are walking with the Lord is a huge joy. As we are in a season of growth and God’s favor at High Sierra Fellowship, I am so excited to see what God is doing, not only in the congregation, but in my life as well. I look forward to what God has for me, and us in the future as we continue to sojourn with the Lord Jesus Christ. I think of the Psalm and the faithfulness of God.

Psalm 37:25 “ I was young and now I am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken or their children begging bread.”

God has been faithful, by continued faith in him I know he will continue to build his church and his people.

Grace to you.                   Pastor Rich <><  

 Ok, here it is — we have been studying our way through 1 Thessalonians and over the past three weeks we have been considering the return of our Lord. During our Sunday morning worship, I have tossed out a few big terms so I promised to give some references to those terms.

Soooooo – here it is, in Pastor Rich language, the terms that I feel may be of some importance to believers as we consider the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1. ESCHATOLOGY

Literally means “the study of last things.” It is a theological term that designates the study of what will happen at the end of history, particularly in relation to the second coming of Jesus Christ. The word comes from two Greek words, eschatos (last) and logos (study) - thus its definition as “the study of last things.” No matter what someone’s belief is about the end times, it is the study of eschatology.

2. MILLENNIUM

Millennium is from Latin (mille, “thousand,” annum, “year) – it’s a theological term based upon Revelation chapter 20. Where we read about the thousand-year period of Christ’s future reign on the earth. The Millennium is important because from a person view of the Millennial reign of Christ on the earth, they develop a school of thought about Eschatology.

3. MILLENNIAL SCHEMES.

There are literally hundreds of different views of end times however most of those views fall into three main categories. Each category evolves around the Millennium and how they view Revelation 20 and the other old testament chapters that support it.

1. Post millennialism.

This is the interpretation maintains that the church will root out evils until Christ will have a spiritual reign over the earth, which will continue for 1,000 years. Then the second advent (coming) of Christ will initiate judgment and bring to an end the present order. This is not a hugely popular view today yet in times past many people held to Post millennial view of Eschatology. Still a few people still hold to this view. Some even believe that the saints bring about the return of the Lord as they make political changes — making the this world into a holy place.

2. A millennialism.

This is the majority view of most of the Christian world. Majority because in one form or another this is the view of the Roman Catholic Church, Anglicans, some Lutherans, and Presbyterians.

A-millennialism holds to a view that no there is no physical Millennium. Rather then a literal understanding of Christ reigning on the earth for 1000 years, A-millennialists believe the scriptures in Revelation describing the gospel age. Some A-millennialists hold to what we call a “Preterist” (or replacement theology) they believe under the new covenant Israel and the church are the same. The church is now in place of Israel and all the promises that God gave Israel now belong to the church.

3. Pre-millennialism.

This interpretation teaches that the church age will end in judgment at the return of Jesus Christ, who will restore the kingdom to Israel and reign for at least 1,000 years on the earth. The chief criticism of premillennialists is that they try to figure out how all the prophecies of the old and new testament come together and in doing so they have the Lord returning twice, and sometimes exalt Israel to a place where they are saved by their works and sacrifices. Pre-millennialists hold that Millennium will be the last of the ordered ages of time and eternity will dawn when the Millennium is complete. The Pre-millennial view falls into many different camps, the three biggest are pre-tribulation rapture, Mid tribulation rapture, and post tribulation rapture.

4. Rapture

A term, not found in the English bible. Yet the concept is found in the bible

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

The term “caught up” in the Latin Vulgate bible is translated “Raptuis or Rapture.” This is the gathering the saints in the clouds coming with those who have died.

5. The Great Tribulation.

Again a term not found in the bible as such. It comes from the King James Version.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. KJV

This is the seven year period that Jesus described in Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 12, many people believe this is the same period that Revelation chapters 6-19 talks about. The bible refers to this time as “day of Jacob’s trouble” (Jer 30:7), “the great tribulation” (Matt 24:21), or “the great day of His wrath” (Rev 6:17). Many scholars believe this period will be seven years long because Revelation 9:27 indicates that. Most believe the most intense tribulation will be the last three and one half years, Dan 12, Rev 12 and Rev. 13.

1. Pre-tribulation Rapture

This is the pre-millennialists view that the rapture of the church will take place before the seven years of tribulation that will come upon the world. The church will not go though any of what is described in Revelation chapters 6-19.

2. Mid-tribulation Rapture

This view holds that the rapture of the church will take place about three and one half years (mid way) into the great tribulation. When things get really bad, Jesus will come for the church.

3. Post-tribulation Rapture

That the church will go though the entire tribulation and be a wittiness to the world, as they like Israel in the plagues on Egypt will not suffer the same as the world.

I hope this all help, thanks for your many comments about our teachings in 1 Thessalonians, I am very excited about what the Lord is doing in our fellowship. I am anticipating great things from the Lord in the coming months.

Blessings and Grace  –   Pastor Rich <><

 Acts 17:28 “For in him we live and move and have our being.”

Just for fun I did a bible search on the words “we live.” What an awesome surprise, I found that phrase “we live” is found 17 times in the bible. Each reference in the New Testament is something that applies to every believer and I found very relevant for my life today.

This opening scripture in Acts 17 (“In him we live.”) is just the kick off. Jesus said he came to give you “abundant life.” Life to its full, complete in the Father, life in the Spirit. For in Jesus we have that life. Plus in him we “move and have our being.” Not only are we spiritually complete in Christ, we find our place in Christ. Our talents, our giftings our very being is found in the Lord. We live – because he lives in us.

The second reference to “we live” adds to this abundant life we have in Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:2 “We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”

We no longer live in sin because we live in Christ. Dead to the old nature, dead to the things of sin, we are truly alive in the Spirit.

Rom 14:8 “If we live , we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.”

No mater what state we are in, be that these mortal bodies or our heavenly ones, we live to the Lord. We live to him because the old nature, the sinful man/ sinful woman we once served — is dead.

The fourth reference to “we live.”

1 Corinthians 8:6 “Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live ; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

Are you living for God and alive through Jesus? What does that mean? The context is idols, how some people were still bowing to idols, and some people were tripped out about foods sacrificed to idols. Instead of tripping out about such stuff we know that because we are born of the Spirit, “we live” for God and the power to even know God comes through Jesus Christ. He is our mediator, he is our only access to the Father.

2 Corinthians 5:7 “We live by faith, not by sight.”

Are you living like that? By faith? Is faith the thing that helps you make the tough decisions of life? Or are you like Lot, who looked out at the greener pastures and chose the plains of Gomorrah when Abraham gave him his choice of where to live? He saw things there looked better, and soon that ungodly culture sucked him and his whole family in. He was living in the worst neighborhood in the most ungodly community. By faith we move out, by faith we make our decisions, by faith we look at this world and know that God will guide as we trust him.

2 Corinthians 10:3 “For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.”

Living in the world but recognizing that there is spiritual warfare, and we do not fight life’s battles with the world’s weapons. Our problems are fought against using the weapons of God that have divine power to demolish stronghold and set itself up against every argument. Life for the believer is often likened to a battlefield. But like the Israelites of old, we know; “the battle belongs to the Lord.” Put on your gospel armor.

Galatians 5:25 “Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.”

The Holy Spirit is calling out a cadence, a call to follow him, to keep in step with the marching orders of the Spirit. What does he call out? What is his call? He is always leading us in the fruit of the Spirit. Following Him in every part of life. So Paul’s words in Galatians is a statement of fact not a command. “Since we live by the Spirit — I will, listen and keep in step with what he is saying.”

Finally one last “we live” reference.

1 John 4:13 “We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit”

We live in him, Jesus, and he lives in us. This we know, this is not something we hope for, rather this is something we know. That we live in him. We live, we really live in Jesus Christ. How do we know that we are born again? How can you tell if the Lord is real in your life? It is by the Holy Spirit who abides in you and whom you are keeping in step with.

When a man/ or a woman begins to act differently then the world, when they react differently then the flesh wants to react, that is a person who you can see the Holy Spirit at work in their lives.

Galatians 5:22-23 “…The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”

There are no limits around what God wants to do in the believer’s life. Are you a man who lives? Are you a woman who has abundant life? If not consider our opening scripture, in him, “We live.”

Acts 17:28 “For in him we live and move and have our being.”

Grace    Pastor Rich     <><

 Ephesians 1:3 “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.”

Yes the rumors are true, we had a fire at our church building. God was very merciful to us, we had no fire damage and just a little water and smoke damage.

About 2:50pm Sunday March 30^th we received a call that the fire department was responding to sprinkler alarm at 1426 Industrial way Gardnerville. Well to say the least, Suzanne and I booked. When we arrived there was a lot of smoke coming from the front of the building by the upholstery shop. It turns out one of the heater above the front part of the building caused an insulation fire.

The sprinklers along with the firefighters adding more water cause a lot of water damage to that part of the building. All the businesses will have to relocate at least until the building is repaired. We received water under the walls in the front Sunday school (club impact) room. That part of the building from the foyer to the Sunday School room has a bit of a smoke smell.

Kelly Steam had a crew working on our part of the building within hours and they continue to work to help us be smoke smell free by Sunday. Thank you for your calls and prayers. As I said God had mercy on us and we should not miss an bible studies or meetings. Club impact may not meet this week, we should know Wednesday morning for sure.

Well, all that is one thing, but as several people reminded me today — High Sierra Fellowship is all over the news, I guess that is free publicity.

Romans 8:28 “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”

Grace,    Pastor Rich <><

 We are moving!   The new building is really three units for a grand total of over 11,000 square feet.  That is more then double the space we currently have, at about the same rent.

As you know we have been taxing our current facilities, the buildings are crowded and the parking situation is strained. The new facilities have plenty of parking along with enough space for everyone.

Our move in schedule is very aggressive.  We have started construction, painting and cleaning.  Moving should mostly take place the last week of Feburary. 

In order to keep from paying rent in two locations, we are planing our first service in the new facility Sunday March 2^nd. Between then and now we have a lot to do.

How can you help? There are three areas that each of us can be a part of this project.

1. Volunteer labor.

• Construction, Painting, Moving & Refreshments for the workers.

2. Pray.

• For the project, the workers, the leadership, the landlord.

3. Financial help.

• There will be huge outlay up front to make the building what we want, some of which will be reimbursed in rent reductions.

When Ezra and Nehemiah were rebuilding the city of Jerusalem, there were people who opposed them, and others who mocked them. But God’s people came together in these same three areas and when it was done, the bible records the results.

Neh 6:15-16 So the wall was completed… in fifty-two days. When all our enemies heard about this, all the surrounding nations were afraid and lost their self-confidence, because they realized that this work had been done with the help of our God.

I am working on posting a few pictures but have been unable to do so.  Keep checking or better yet, come by the facility, we are there working 6 days a week.

Blessings and Grace

Pastor Rich <><

 Nehemiah was a man on a mission. God’s city, Jerusalem was in ruin, the walls were torn down, but even more the temple was in disarray.  So God called two men, Ezra, and Nehemiah, nether were builders, but both had a passion for the Lord and for his city.

Ezra was a scribe, a man who wrote out the scriptures. Long before there were printing presses, Scribes were responsible to copy the holy text of the old testament without a flaw. If they made a mistake, they would burn the entire page, no white out, no erasers, perfection was required, for every copy of scriptures.

Nehemiah was a cup bearer to the king of Babylon, he was in charge of tasting the kings food and wine to make sure it was safe to eat.  Yet God called these two men to go and do practical ministry in Jerusalem.

The book of Nehemiah records hundreds of names of the families that went to rebuild God’s city.  Starting with the walls, Nehemiah came against unsurmountable odds. Outsiders who did not want to see the Jews succeed. Insiders who thought the old temple and the old walls were much better.  Yet Nehemiah was not swayed in his commitment.

Nehemiah 6:15-16 So the wall was completed on the twenty-fifth of Elul, in fifty-two days . When all our enemies heard about this, all the surrounding nations were afraid and lost their self-confidence, because they realized that this work had been done with the help of our God.

In 52 days, Nehemiah did what others said could not be done.  In 52 days, the enemies of Israel lost their confidence, because they saw the hand of God.

Ok, here we are, we just got a signed lease on a new facility.  There will be those who will say, “The old building was better.”  Not seeing this as the hand of God.  There will be others that will think we can not do what we want, to take a warehouse and make it into a place of worship.

But we know that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, the people are the church, and as the Psalmist said so well.

Psalm 127:1 Unless the LORD builds the house, its builders labor in vain. Unless the LORD watches over the city,the watchmen stand guard in vain.

Our new facility is 1424 Industrial way, (the old Grace Community Church building). For us the bottom line is it is twice the size at the same rent we are now paying.  Plus there is room to grow beyond that.

It needs a lot of work to be what we want for our congregation.  The youth and children’s facilities are not able to handle the young people that are so important to our church. The decor is not what we envision for a comfortable place to worship.   So here we go, we need your help.  Labor for building, painting, pulling up old carpet, and general cleaning. Then the move.  

The plan is March 2^nd we will worship in our new facility.  It most likely will not be completely finished, but with the Lord’s help we will be able to occupy. 

Beginning this week we will put together teams to accomplish all the tasks.  Like Nehemiah we will complete our task as we keep our focus on the Lord and not the project.  Like Nehemiah’s project, this could be a witness to all the community that God has helped us.

Grace — Pastor Rich   <><  

 Wow, a new year is here. For me this past year, things flew by, it seems that just yesterday we were ushering in 2007. But here we are with a new year before us. For me I have an excitement about the future and what it holds. I find there is anticipation in many believers as we wait for what the Lord has in store for His church this year.

Just a few things I feel are making this a exiting year.

• The election.

  • We may not know who God will put in power for the next four years but we can look with confidence that God has this election under control. (Romans 13)

 

• The Economy.

  • America may be in for a real hard time financially, I know so many people fearing the future. But we know that in this too — God is in control. For believers we need to be faithful in the little things, good steward of God’s resources, and live by faith as we watch God provide for his children — even if the economy goes south. (Matthew 6:28-34)

• The Church.

  • God has been working not just here at High Sierra Fellowship, but around the world. Men and women are coming back to the bible and returning to the basic tenets of our faith. The foolishness of the church growth movement, the word of faith lies, and legalistic religion are all loosing as people come back to Jesus Christ and him Crucified. (1Timothy 4:9-10)

• The Anticipation. 

•  

  • As I talk with people in the church (at large) and our community there is an anticipation about the future. Anticipation that manifest itself in fear to some, but hope to believers.

2 Peter 3:11-14 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

My friends, the scriptures tell us to live with the anticipation of the “coming good” Christ’s return. To live lives set apart, lives different from the world, lives looking forward to Jesus return.

What does 2008 hold for you or me? I don’t know but I think this will be another great year for the church, for High Sierra Fellowship, and for true believers around the world.

Blessings and Grace,

Pastor Rich <><